{"id":4539,"date":"2019-07-09T19:17:26","date_gmt":"2019-07-09T19:17:26","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/?p=4539"},"modified":"2021-03-18T06:39:52","modified_gmt":"2021-03-18T06:39:52","slug":"learning-to-hear-the-chickens-voice-part-2-an-interview-with-dynestee-fields","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/2019\/07\/09\/learning-to-hear-the-chickens-voice-part-2-an-interview-with-dynestee-fields\/","title":{"rendered":"Learning to Hear the Chicken&#8217;s Voice Part 2: An Interview with Dynestee Fields"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>In <a href=\"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/2019\/07\/06\/learning-to-hear-the-chickens-voice-part-1-dynestee-fields-honors-project\/\">the first part of my interview with Dynestee Fields<\/a> about her documentary &#8220;The Voice of the Chicken,&#8221; we discussed the origins of her research as well as her purpose in making the short film.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-youtube wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"The Voice of the Chicken\" width=\"1170\" height=\"658\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/emKf9O_5B-4?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>In this second part of the interview we cover the ramifications of Dynestee&#8217;s documentary, the history of chicken genetic modification, the odd place chickens occupy in the discussion of animal rights, how Hurricane Katrina gave chicken advocates unexpected information about chicken treatment, how female and male chickens differ, what happens when you show a documentary about chickens <em>to<\/em> a chicken, and which on-screen talking heads in &#8220;The Voice of the Chicken&#8221; have values that best match and clash with Dynestee&#8217;s own.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<!--more-->\n\n\n\n<p>Dr. Sircy: What is one thing that you want everyone who watched the documentary to learn?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Dynestee Fields:\nI would definitely to learn the inner complexity of chickens so they don\u2019t just\nthink, \u201cOh, look there. How dumb!\u201d or \u201cHow unworthy of consideration.\u201d Because\nright now, chickens do not have much legal protection at all. They\u2019re exempt\nfrom the Humane Slaughter act. They\u2019re not even classified as animals under the\nAnimal Welfare Act. You can pretty much do\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: Are cows\nprotected under that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: Well, they\u2019re\nprotected under the Humane Slaughter Act. Animals that are used for research\nand that kind of thing are not protected under the Animal Welfare Act. So\nreally farm animals are exempt. Except cock fighting! Roosters that are used\nfor that? It\u2019s like, \u201cProtect them.\u201d So it seems to be animals that we can\nsweep underneath the rug like mice and birds? They\u2019re not protected under the\nAnimal Welfare Act either, despite the fact that they\u2019re really the ones that\nare used for research. Go figure!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: Have you\nshown the documentary <em>to<\/em> chickens?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: I have not shown the documentaries, but there have been instances where chickens have been shown television to see how they would react. Some researchers in Sydney, Australia during the 90s put chickens in cages, surrounded the cages with TVs, and pretty much did this virtual reality experience where they tried to see how chickens would react to a hawk on the screen or maybe another chicken. That kind of thing. The chickens reacted pretty much like they would if there was a physical chicken right there. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-pullquote\"><blockquote><p>&#8220;[Chickens are] not protected under the Animal Welfare Act either, despite the fact that they\u2019re really the ones that are used for research. Go figure!&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: That\u2019s\nfascinating.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: And while I\nwas out filming the chickens, I recorded this rooster giving this ground\npredator call, and I was just going back through the footage and playing it\njust to see what it sounded like, and he heard it and came running out to help\nwhatever chicken was being attacked. It was interesting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: Cool. Can you\nunderstand chicken language?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: I can\nunderstand it a whole lot better now. There\u2019s some stuff that\u2019s confusing\nbecause different people have different things to say about it. The pre-laying\ncall? One source I read was like, \u201cThis may be because hens don\u2019t want to be\nharassed by roosters who want to mate, so they\u2019re like, \u2018I\u2019m laying an egg, so\nthis is not a good time to try and mate with me.\u2019\u201d And then another source\nsaid, \u201cThis is like a content sound. Chickens are happy when they\u2019re saying\nthis.\u201d So what does it really mean?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: What is the\nsound you most love to hear? If you had to give your phone a ringtone from a\nchicken voice what sound would it make?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: The food call\nthat a rooster gives for a hen. Definitely. Because it\u2019s just so interesting.\nYou saw the documentary. You heard that little sound. It\u2019s just so interesting.\nWhen a rooster finds a place for a hen to nest and then he starts purring, I\ndon\u2019t know. It\u2019s just pleasing to the ear.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: I was\nparticularly taken by your use of the word \u201cmorsel.\u201d I wanted to know if that\nwas a scientific term for chicken food. That\u2019s a good word! Will you continue\nto gain fluency in the voice of the chicken?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: Now I\u2019m\nhooked so very likely. I\u2019ll be looking at any sources that come out and shed\nmore light on that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: Okay. We got at this at the beginning, but I want to ask a little more pointedly: in what way has chicken language changed or remained unchanged through this process of domestication that you focus on? That is, as we tinker with chicken genetics, are we also tinkering with the voice of the chicken?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-pullquote\"><blockquote><p>&#8220;So animal activists rescued some chickens that were left behind in Hurricane Katrina: unlike the chickens that are bred commercially and slaughtered, they got to see what happens to those chickens after they reached their age.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: Well not the vocal repertoire, but a lot with the visual displays that go along with it because now these chickens that they have created, they are not likely to go broody and sit on chicks to hatch them out and that sort of thing. One thing is they\u2019re designed to live shorter lifespans. The broiler chickens, the commercial broiler, they\u2019re not even going to be around long because they\u2019re eventually going to outgrow what their body can handle so their joints are going to break down. So animal activists rescued some chickens that were left behind in Hurricane Katrina: unlike the chickens that are bred commercially and slaughtered, they got to see what happens to those chickens after they reached their age. They did not live very long. There were just a bunch of weird things. They were overly aggressive, like the roosters. They ate constantly. Even when they tried to limit food, the chickens were eating their own poop. So they can\u2019t stop because they\u2019re designed to grow that way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: To borrow the\ntitle from human relationship book from the 90s, are male chickens from Mars\nand female chickens from Venus?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: That\u2019s a mixed bag, but I would say so. Like humans, chickens also have similar interests: food, safety, reproduction. But then they each have different roles. The male is main is mainly the protector. He goes and fights off predators. He pretty much finds food for the hens. He\u2019s a the center of the flock. Without a male, a dominant female will assume that position. But if a hen has chicks, and she remains with them, usually they go back to the flock they came from, one of her chicks will eventually assume command of the flock. So it\u2019s interesting. In the red jungle fowl societies, you have a dominant rooster and a dominant hen, so that\u2019s pretty much how it works for domestic chickens too. So I\u2019m not really sure because they\u2019re both territorial. The hens will keep other flock members in their place. If there\u2019s a rooster around, he\u2019s the one who\u2019s in control of everything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: At what point\nin human history did we start consuming chickens?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: Also a\ndifficult question. People started domesticating them around 10000 years ago in\nIndia and 6000 BC in China: They were really using them for cockfighting at\nfirst.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: Really! Not\nfood?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: Yes,\ncockfighting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: So the first\nthing we did with chickens was to get them to fight each other?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: Yes, and\nthere were some religious sacrifices so that was happening. Some people like\nthe Romans and Egyptians were like, \u201cWe can breed these birds and have a supply\nof eggs.\u201d So they were really involved with that. Eventually it seems like\npeople were like,\u201d Here\u2019s a source of food that we could possibly eat that we\ncould keep low maintenance and then just have something to eat when we needed it.\u201d\nI\u2019m not exactly sure when that happened. Sources don\u2019t really give a clear\nindicator. This just kind of trickled in. Eventually, it became mainstream like\nin America especially around the 19<sup>th<\/sup> Century. Up until that point,\nreally chickens were laying hens. They\u2019re gonna lay an egg, and that\u2019s what we\nreally need. When they\u2019re not laying eggs anymore, we can just eat them. Then\npeople eventually decided, \u201cLet\u2019s just have an industry where we\u2019re just\nraising chickens specifically for meat.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: You\u2019ve made\nme think of something. Let\u2019s say that moment doesn\u2019t happen: the\nindustrialization of the broiler chicken, the chicken that\u2019s designed to be\neaten. Would having chickens to lay eggs of itself led to the same genetic bad\nmojo we\u2019ve created in the past 100 years, or was the industry of collecting\neggs a more peaceful way of domesticating chickens? Is using chickens for eggs\ninevitably going to lead to irreparable damage, or is that only a product of us\nwanting chickens as meat?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: The red\njungle fowl laid five to six eggs per breeding season. That\u2019s twice a year.\nSomehow now domestic chickens lay 300 eggs a year. Obviously, it went south in\nboth directions. That\u2019s one thing. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: You make that point in the documentary. The kinds of things you emphasize in terms of chicken mistreatment seem to be me the product of wanting them to be meat. Does it hurt a hen to lay 300 eggs a year? I\u2019m wondering is the chicken being abused to get it 300 eggs. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-pullquote\"><blockquote><p>&#8220;Every time the eggs hatch and there\u2019s a male chick he\u2019s going to go into the macerator or stuffed into a bag and suffocated. I think they\u2019re against suffocating the chicks in the trash bags, but they\u2019re fine with tossing them in the grinder.&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: The way that\nthey\u2019re doing it, like the housing and everything, is what is really causing\nthe chickens harm. Well, the bone structure thing too: the osteoporosis that\nhens develop from laying all these things. And the way they want to keep the\neggs clean for human safety. They hide the chickens away, keeping them in that kind\nof environment. Even these cage-free facilities are big buildings where there\nare so many chickens they can\u2019t even maneuver around, just a bunch of chickens\ncrowded into one place. Plus, you know the egg industry? Every time the eggs\nhatch and there\u2019s a male chick he\u2019s going to go into the macerator or stuffed\ninto a bag and suffocated. I think they\u2019re against suffocating the chicks in\nthe trash bags, but they\u2019re fine with tossing them in the grinder. I think that\nnext year or the year afterwards, they\u2019re supposed to be implementing this new\ndevice where they cut a hole in the egg and use a tiny laser to determine if\nthe chick is going to be male or female and then they\u2019re going to destroy it\nwhich I think is still just as wasteful. And then the laying hens? They say,\n\u201cYou can\u2019t provide us with any more eggs, and this whole thing is about money,\nso you\u2019re going to have to be killed, usually by gassing.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DS: Did you interview someone for your documentary film who voiced opinions that closely mirror your own? Is there someone on camera in &#8220;The Voice of the Chicken&#8221; that if were to have a longer conversation with them we\u2019d hear views that line up with your own?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>DF: Ms. Sandra\nGray, the woman who owns Seneca Creek Organic Farm, her view of chickens I\nguess mirrors mine. She does let hers free-range, and they do get picked off by\npredators which is unfortunate, but if you\u2019re going to do that with domestic\nchickens and let them have some freedom, you have to be wary of that. I guess\nher views more strongly align with mine. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But then I also\ninterviewed Joe B. Winn, the one with the chickens who is out at the homestead.\nAt first, I was just opposed to his thinking. At first, before the project\nbecame just about \u201chave you seen chickens communicating?\u201d and \u201cwhat were they\ndoing?\u201d, it had a religious bent because that\u2019s where the documentary was going\nat first. My lit review was divided into different sections: why do people\nthink this way about chickens, and here\u2019s the Christian view and here\u2019s this\nview because people don\u2019t think chickens have reason. So, I was asking him,\n\u201cHow does this influence your view of chickens, you being a Christian?\u201d and the\nmorality of eating meat. He pretty much said, \u201cAll animals communicate. God\nmade them, so they have to communicate with each other. You just don\u2019t try to\nget close to the animal because you know you\u2019re gonna eat it.\u201d That was just\n\u201cUgggh!\u201d at first, but now that I think about it that actually makes a lot of\nsense. \u201cSure all animals communicate. There\u2019s nothing special about that.\u201d At\nfirst I thought, \u201cPeople think chickens are stupid. If I can just prove that\nchickens are intelligent creatures people will stop giving them trouble and\ntrying to kill them. \u201cHere\u2019s a new animal that we can recognize. They\u2019re a\nhigher-level being. We can just knock-off what we\u2019re doing.\u201d But people are\nmore like, \u201cSo what?\u201d That\u2019s a really good thing, especially with animals and\nscience. My view would never work in science, because the closer animals are to\nbeing like humans, it\u2019s like, \u201cOh! That makes them excellent test subjects!\u201d <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this second part of the interview we cover the ramifications of Dynestee&#8217;s documentary, we&#8217;ll learn about how chickens are genetically modified, the odd place chickens occupy in the discussion of animal rights, how Hurricane Katrina gave chicken advocates unexpected information, how female and male chickens differ, what happens when you show a documentary about chickens to a chicken, and which on-screen talking heads in &#8220;The Voice of the Chicken&#8221; voice values that best match and clash with Dynestee&#8217;s own.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":22,"featured_media":4537,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[342],"tags":[85,82,89,372,358],"class_list":["post-4539","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-media-studies","tag-animals","tag-conversations","tag-documentary","tag-media-projects","tag-video","clearfix"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4539","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/22"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4539"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4539\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4541,"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4539\/revisions\/4541"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4537"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4539"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4539"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.freedomshillprimer.com\/institute\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4539"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}